#7 Guest Episode: John Wakefield, Part 1 (粵語)

This week's guest is John Wakefield, an Associate Professor at Hong Kong Baptist University and a veteran Cantonese screen actor. The conversation has been split up into two parts, with this episode focusing on Professor Wakefield's journey learning Cantonese and his experiences in the Hong Kong entertainment industry. Be sure to check the next episode for part two, where he discusses his research interests at greater length.






Vocabulary
1. 學術會議 hok6 seot6 wui6 ji5 (N)academic conference
2. 交流 gaau1 lau4 (N/V) exchange
3. 傳教士 cyun4 gaau3 si6 (N) missionary
4. 宗教信仰 zung1 gaau3 seon3 joeng5 (N) religious belief
5. 後尾 hau5 mei1/5 (CONJ) at the end / then
6. 戇居 ngong6 geoi1 (ADJ) silly / stupid / dumb
7. 譯音 jik6 jam1 (N) transliteration
8. 調轉 diu6 zyun3 (V) to reverse / invert / swap
9. 身份證 san1 fan2 zing3 (N) identity card
10. 會長 wui6 zoeng2 (N) president (of organization)
11. 港產片 gong2 caan2 pin2 (N) Hong Kong made movie
12. 電視劇 din6 si6 kek6 (N) television drama
13. 搵錢 wan2 cin2 (VO) to earn / make money
14. 傢俬 gaa1 si1 (N) furniture
15. 拍戲 pak3 hei3 (VO) to shoot movie
16. 導演 dou6 jin2 (N) director (of performance)
17. 續集 zuk6 zaap6 (N) sequel
18. 現場 jin6 coeng4 (ADJ/N) live / on location
19. 配音 pui3 jam1 (VO) to dub / voice over
20. 把聲 baa2 seng1 (MN) the voice
21. 性感 sing3 gam2 (ADJ) sexy
22. 穩定 wan2 ding6 (ADJ) stable
23. 老細 lou5 sai3 (N) boss
24. 水泵 seoi2 bam1 (N) water pump
25. 忽略 fat1 loek6 (V/N) to neglect / negligence
26. 認真 jing6 zan1 (ADJ) serious
27. 補習社 bou2 zaap6 se5 (N) tutoring center
28. 研究 jin4 gau3 (V/N) to remind / reminder
29. 天王巨星 tin1 wong4 geoi6 sing1 (N) megastar
30. 接觸 zip3 zuk1 (V) to keep/maintain
31. 埋位 maai4 wai2 (VO) to get in place / be seated
32. 聯絡 lyun4 lok3 (V) to contact
33. 圈子 hyun1 zi2 (N) social circle
34. 茄哩啡 ke1 le1 fe1 (N) extras (acting)
35. 角色 gok3 sik1 (N) role
36. 劇本 kek6 bun2 (N) script
37. 對白 deoi3 baak6 (N) dialogue / line (acting)
38. 內容 noi6 jung4 (N) content
39. 記性 gei3 sing3 (N) memory / ability to remember
40. 差館 caai1 gun2 (N) police station


ADJ - Adjective
ADV - Adverb
CONJ - Conjunction
MN - Measure word + noun
N - Noun
V - Verb
VO - Verb Object


Transcript

Raymond: 莊域飛博士係香港浸會大學副教授。佢出版嘅著作包括《粵語助詞及語調》以及《粵語社會語用學第二語言習得》等研究。佢最近亦都編輯咗《粵語作爲第二語言教學》以及《英語外來語喺粵語中嘅意義變化》等書籍。莊教授同時亦都係一位香港資深影視演員。我哋好榮幸邀請到佢同大家分享喺香港生活同教學嘅種種經歷。我哋嘅對話分成兩部分,所以記得下個禮拜返嚟聽埋第二部分啦。


Cameron: Dr John Wakefield is an Associate Professor at Hong Kong Baptist University, and he has published works on Cantonese Discourse Particles and Intonation, as well as Sociopragmatics Acquiring Cantonese as a Second Language. He’s the editor of the book Cantonese as a Second Language: Issues, Experiences and Suggestions for Teaching and Learning from Routledge. He is the author of the forthcoming book titled English Loanwords in Cantonese: How Their Meanings Have Changed from Hong Kong University Press. He's also a veteran screen actor in Hong Kong, and we are very honored to have him share with us his amazing experiences living and teaching in the city. Our conversation has been split up into two parts, so be sure to check back next week for part two.


Raymond:噉我哋今日嘅嘉賓呢,其實都係我嘅朋友啦,亦都係我嘅,算是同事啦,我哋都合作過。唔少嘅機會呀,喺唔同嘅可能喺一啲學術會議1呀,又或者喺一啲同粵語有關嘅活動啦,噉我哋都有唔少嘅交流2。噉佢呢中文名就叫做莊域飛。噉佢都係呢個香港浸會大學嘅教授嚟嘅。噉所以啦,與其係我去介紹佢個背景,我覺得應該等莊教授啦,去親自同大家講下佢嘅背景同埋經歷。我覺得噉樣仲有啲意思。


Cameron: Welcome Dr Wakefield, welcome to the podcast. As Raymond mentioned, you two are old colleagues and friends, but for me, this is a new connection. We'd love you to just briefly talk about your own background and experiences with Cantonese.


John Wakefield: 呀你好你好,大家好!噉多謝你哋邀請我嚟參加呢個 podcast。我叫莊域飛。噉我之前有過另外一個中文名,因爲我初初學中文呢,就係,因爲即係我唔係自己決定學中文嘅。我係因爲之前我係信摩門教嘅。噉教會就派我嚟香港做傳教士3嘅。噉我而家就冇宗教信仰4啦。但係初初我就係因為呢個原因學㗎喇。我之前嘅中文名就叫溫約翰,嗰啲傳教士呢,嗰個姓啦,個英文嘅姓啦,嗰個頭個字母啦,就會用個頭個字母就搵返一個中文姓做佢嘅姓呀。噉係因為我係 W 呀嘛,Wakefield, 噉就改我嘅姓叫溫。噉 John 呢,因為聖經裏邊嘅John叫溫約翰啦。噉後尾5啦我做完傳教士之後啦我就去德州大學讀大學啦。噉嗰時我就參加香港同學會。噉香港同學會呢,就有個 list(名單)啦,噉我個名就喺個list 度,因為我參加咗。噉有個朋友睇咗個 list 嗰啲名,噉佢唔知我中文名係乜嘢,噉佢就睇到我個中文名,佢“哇,邊個父母咁衰改個咁戇居6嘅名”。

(Hello, hello, hello everyone! Thank you so much for inviting me to participate in this podcast. My name is Zong1 Wik6 Fei1 (John Wakefield). I used to have another Chinese name, because when I first studied Chinese, I didn’t decide on my own Chinese name. Since I used to be Mormon, the church sent me to Hong Kong to be a missionary. Now I am no longer Mormon, but I first started studying for this reason. My old Chinese name was “Wan1 Joek3 Hon6,” as those missionaries, they chose a last name based on the first letter of one’s English name--so because Wakefield begins with a “W,” I was given the last name “Wan1.” As for John, that became “Joek3 Hon6” because that is what John is called in The Bible. But then when I finished my missionary trip, I went to the University of Texas for college. At that time I participated in the Hong Kong Student Association, and my Hong Kong classmates had a list of names, and my name was on it since I was a participant. A friend looked at the list without knowing my Chinese name and went, “Wow, whose parents gave them such a dumb name?”)


噉我就知道原來我嗰個“溫約翰”個名就聽落去唔係咁好聽。所以我就有個另外一個同學就幫我改“域飛”,後尾先至加返嗰個“莊”。噉莊啦就係即係好明顯啦莊域飛就係嗰個譯音7啦,John Wakefield 嘅譯音啦。噉就係嗰個姓同埋嗰個名就調轉8咗。噉好多時人哋問“我叫乜嘢名呀?”“ John.”“噉姓乜嘢呀?”“…” 即係會好怪,噉佢哋以為我叫 John John 噉樣。但係呢,我嘅身份證9係真係有呢個名啦,同埋我個女都係跟我嘅姓呀,所以佢中文名都係姓莊嘅。都好得意,即係冇跟我(嘅姓)。佢最近都問,其實點解唔跟媽咪嘅姓呢?因為佢個姓係真係一個中國人嘅姓啦,因為佢係真係傳落嚟嘅。不過個習慣就係跟爸爸囉。

(Then I knew that my name “Wan1 Joek3 Hon6” sounded pretty bad, so I had another classmate help me change it to “Wik6 Fei1,” and then later I added on the “Zong1.” Now “Zong1 Wik6 Fei1” is pretty clearly a transliteration from “John Wakefield,” with the surname and first name swapped [in terms of Chinese name order, where surname comes first]. Most of the time, people ask me what my [first] name is, and I say “John.” “And your last name?” It’s a little strange, and they think my name is “John John.” But on my Hong Kong ID card, that is the name on there, and my daughter also has this last name, so her Chinese name also starts with “Zong1.” It’s quite interesting, as it doesn’t follow my actual last name. She recently asked why she wasn’t given her mother’s last name, as that is an actual Chinese last name that has been passed down. But the practice is to take one’s father’s last name.)



我就因為做完傳教士之後呢,我就,即係對粵語,因為已經學咗年半嘅中文嘅,噉我就對粵語係好有興趣,噉好鍾意學啦。噉我嗰陣時好似我頭先噉講嘅就參加咗呢個香港同學會。噉我就曾經做過會長10囉。噉我就同埋佢哋一齊住,一齊玩。所以我嗰陣時喺 Austin 就講中文多過講英文嘅。所以我就喺嗰度五六年囉,噉我就嗰五六年操到個中文係比我做傳教士嗰陣時係好好多嘅。噉其實係要用嘅。不過跟住我畢業之後就去三藩市,噉三藩市嗰度呢就都有好多機會係可以用廣東話嘅。噉我會成日去唐人街嗰度租啲港產片11電視劇12。噉我就噉樣去練聽咯。噉我有一次我就睇到河國榮喺個電視劇裏邊。噉我就睇到佢呢,(我諗)“我可以噉樣做喎”。因為我想諗到一個辦法,可以用我嘅粵語去搵錢13嘅。即係我想我事業同粵語有關嘅。噉我就決定返嚟香港拍戲。

(Because of my missionary service, I had already studied a year and a half of Chinese [here, Cantonese], so I was interested in Cantonese and liked it a lot. Back then when I participated in the Hong Kong Student Association that I mentioned earlier, I was the president once, and I lived and hung out [with the Hong Kong students]. So when I was in Austin then, I spoke Cantonese more than I spoke English. Over a period of 5 or 6 years, my Cantonese got even better than when I was a missionary, yet it was useful. Yet when I graduated and moved to San Francisco, there were also many opportunities to speak Cantonese. So I often went to Chinatown to rent Hong Kong films and TV dramas, so I got a lot of listening practice. One time I saw Gregory Rivers in a TV drama, and I thought, “I could do this.” Because I wanted to think of a means by which I could make money through Cantonese, I wanted my work to be related to Cantonese. So I decided to return to Hong Kong to film movies.)



噉我嗰陣時係喺個傢俬14舖賣傢俬。有個客就問我,即係我哋就噉傾計啦,我就話佢聽我有興趣返香港拍戲15咯,就有噉嘅打算。噉佢就識得一個導演16嘅,叫劉國昌。佢就俾咗佢嘅聯絡電話我啦,噉我嚟到香港我就搵佢囉。噉佢嗰陣時就拍緊呢個《雷洛傳》嘅續集17。噉咁啱佢有個角色就適合我做嘅。做一個翻譯員。就噉就識咗佢啦。跟住過幾年後又同佢拍一個,可能係我最好嘅角色啦,就係《哥哥的情人》,就做一個老師,叫做咩“齋滷味”,嗰個老師嘅花名。噉嗰個角色,因為劉國昌係一個好好嘅導演,佢好專業好認真,噉佢就俾。。。同埋佢都幾重戲份噉樣啦。不過後尾呢,佢又係冇錄音嘅。即係好多時拍戲嗰陣時唔錄音,唔會現場18錄音,後尾喺返個 studio (録影廠) 度拍,配音19囉。但係配音嗰時我就喺北京拍緊另外一套戲,噉佢就搵一個加拿大人同我配音。佢又係識講廣東話嘅。嗰套戲把聲20就唔係我,但係都係一個外國人講廣東話嘅。所以都好得意。後尾我北京嗰套戲呢就係《獅王爭霸》,就係呢個《黃飛鴻》第三集。嗰套呢又係配音嘅。噉佢哋就諗住搵我配返我自己把聲。但係個導演係徐克,佢覺得我把聲唔夠 man,唔夠性感21呀,所以佢就話都係唔搵我做返我自己嗰個(配音)喇,所以佢哋就搵一個中國人配廣東話嗰把聲囉,好得意呀。

(Now back then I was working in a furniture shop selling furniture. A customer asked me, when we were talking, whether I was interested in returning to Hong Kong, whether I had that sort of plan. They knew a director, Lawrence Ah Mon. They gave me his telephone contact details, and when I got to Hong Kong I looked him up. Back then he was shooting the Lee Rock television series, and he just happened to have a part that fit me, a translator. So I got to know him, and a few years later I filmed with him again, perhaps my best role, the teacher in Three Summers, with the nickname “Zaai1 Lou5 Mei2” [a type of vegetarian meat substitute]. Now this role--since Lawrence was a great director--he was very professional and earnest, and he was a rather major part of the series. But ultimately, we didn’t record audio, as many times one did not record sound when shooting a drama, it wouldn’t be recorded live onset but rather recorded in a studio later [ADR (automated dialogue replacement), or voiceover]. But when they were recording the voiceover, I was in Beijing filming something else, so he found a Canadian to do the voiceover who also knew Cantonese. So the voice in that drama isn’t actually mine, but it is still that of a foreigner speaking Cantonese. It’s quite interesting. Then in Beijing I was filming “Si1 Wong4 Zang1-baa3”, the third installment in Once Upon a Time in China. That film also had ADR. They thought about getting me to come back to record my voice, but the director, Tsui Hark, he didn’t think my voice was manly enough, not sexy enough, so he found someone else to record for me, so they found a Chinese person to dub me in Cantonese. Pretty interesting.)


噉呢個我背景噉跟住後尾即係而家講埋成個故仔囉。噉我就拍完戲呢,我就識咗個香港女仔,噉我就想,我哋就開始認真就諗住結婚。噉如果諗住結婚呢,我就一定要搵份穩定22嘅工作,噉就唔可以拍戲,因為好唔穩定。噉我就喺報紙搵到一個好細嘅廣告,係搵一個人賣水泵嘅,喺南華早報。噉我就去見工啦。嗰個老細23啦佢就話“唔得,我哋要搵一個識講嘅廣東話嘅。嗰個老細係英國人,我同佢講緊英文,但係我話俾佢聽我識講。噉佢就話“哦好呀好呀” 噉佢就叫我去見啦,佢就請我啦。九幾呀,好似93 年,一路到 2002 年,就喺香港賣水泵24,後尾就去大陸買賣增氧機。所以呢個講粵語真係,好多啲客呀,同事呀,全部都係同我講廣東話嘅。我返屋企又係同我老婆講廣東話,噉我成個生活都係講廣東話嘅。噉呢個就係最好學一個語言嘅方法。

(Let me get to the end of the story of my background [with Cantonese]. After I finished filming movies, I got to know a young woman from Hong kong, and I started thinking seriously about getting married. But if I wanted to get married, I would need a stable job, and I couldn’t do movies, as that wasn’t stable. So I found a small ad in the newspaper saying they needed someone to sell water pumps--this was in the South China Morning Post. So I went for a job interview and the boss said it wouldn’t work, as they wanted someone who could speak Cantonese--he was a British guy, and we were speaking in English--but I told him I could speak Cantonese. Then he said, “Alright, alright.” Then he hired me. So from ninety-something, [nineteen] ninety-three all the way until 2002, I was in Hong Kong selling water pumps, and later I went to the mainland to sell oxygen generators. So when it came to speaking Cantonese, with most clients and coworkers, I was speaking Cantonese. And when I went home, I was speaking Cantonese with my wife, so my whole life was in Cantonese. This really is the best way to learn a language.)


但係我自己就忽略25咗冇去好認真26去繼續讀。其實應該係兩樣加埋,一路讀一路用嘅。噉我就比較懶囉,所以就用得係少。後尾啦,我就唔鍾意做生意,因為喺大陸見唔到老婆同埋個女,噉我就返嚟香港開咗個補習社27。噉開補習社呢,就要用英文,教英文囉。噉就啲家長都係鍾意同我講英文,佢想練自己嘅英文。噉佢哋係我嘅客,噉我就冇理由唔同佢講英文。噉要教小朋友嗰時就要同佢地講英文囉,噉落堂嗰陣時都要同佢哋講英文囉。就變咗我開始就要講多啲英文嘅。噉我教英文嗰陣時呢,我就喺網上讀 MA (Master of Arts 文學碩士)。噉讀完 MA 就喺理大讀博士。噉就開始喺academia (學術界) 做嘢。噉我嘅研究28都係同粵語有關嘅。噉成個過程就噉樣喇,到今時今日。

(However, I neglected to seriously continue my studies. There should really be two parts that come together, studying and doing at the same time. But I was relatively lazy, so I wasn’t doing much. Later, I didn’t really like doing business, as I didn’t see my wife and daughter when I was in the mainland, so I came back to Hong Kong to start a tutoring center. At the tutoring center, I was using English. The parents also liked speaking in English to me, as they wanted to practice their English. And they were my customers, so there was no reason to not speak English with them. When I was teaching kids, I was speaking English, and when class ended I was still speaking English. It became such that I was speaking more English. When I was teaching English, I was getting my masters online, and when I finished my masters, I did my doctorate at Hong Kong Polytechnic University. That’s when I started working in academia. What I research is related to Cantonese. So that’s my journey, all the way up to now.)


Raymond: 好,噉其實我有個問題可能又想走返轉頭問你嘅。我相信啲聽眾會有興趣知道你,即係做演員嘅時候啦,即係因爲你啱啱提到嘅幾套戲裏面呢,即係嗰啲演員裏面好多我哋今日會叫做天王巨星29呀,即係有李連杰呀、有劉德華呀,我睇過你啱啱講你拍《獅王爭霸》嗰個片段裏面仲有咩嘢關芝琳呀。你有冇機會同佢哋接觸30㗎?有冇啲有趣嘅事?同埋佢哋對你學粵語有冇影響呀?


Cameron: So just to back up a little bit, as many listeners might be particularly interested in when you were an actor, a few of the films you mentioned included people who probably considered superstars like Jet Li or Andy Lau or even Rosamund Kwan who acted alongside in Once Upon a Time in China III. Did you have any notable interactions with them, or did they have any influence on how you learn Cantonese?


John Wakefield: 都冇因爲我接觸佢哋嘅時間都係好少,都係等埋位31嗰陣時同佢哋傾下偈噉樣囉。之後我冇乜同佢哋聯絡32。因爲我唔係嗰個圈子33呀嘛,佢哋係大明星,我係,即係三四線啦,即係有幾句對白講嘅茄哩啡34可以即係噉講啦。不過係幾好玩,拍戲係一個好嘅經歷囉。我覺得我最好嗰個角色35呢,就係《中國教父》,因爲呢個係一個亞視嘅電視劇,英文叫做 Shanghai Godfather。噉點解我覺得呢個最好呢?就係因爲戲啦佢哋嗰個劇本36又會隨時改嘅。即係好似我拍嗰個《獅王爭霸》啦,佢哋就俾個劇本我,可能我聽日要拍,噉佢哋就今日俾個啲對白37我。噉我就學咗啲對白。噉跟住就去埋位啦,就有個人過嚟,佢就劃咗嗰啲對白,寫啲新嘅對白。噉可能我跟住我剩返五分鍾就要學嗰啲新嘅對白。其實都唔需要講到咁準,因爲後尾都係配音,所以我都唔明,不過可能佢哋就想我知道嗰個內容38啦,噉我嗰啲表情就可以跟翻嗰個內容喇。但係嗰個電視劇就會比較好啲,因爲佢哋寫好個劇本,跟住就跟嗰個劇本嘅。所以我就要差唔多兩個星期時間去背嗰啲對白,噉樣係可以拍戲,真係可以入個角色咯。如果唔係你好難入戲嘅,如果你淨係想,即係記住嗰啲對白,如果我噉嘅年紀我諗我都做唔到喇,因為我記性39差咗囉。噉嗰個就可能係最好啦。

(Not really, as I only interacted with them very briefly, like when we were waiting to take our places for a scene, we might speak a little. Afterwards I had no contact with them, as I wasn’t a part of the entertainment scene, they were big movie stars, and I was just a bit-part actor, an extra with a few sentences of dialogue. But it was a lot of fun, making movies was a fun experience. I thought the best role was in “Zung1 Gwok3 Gaau3 Fu6,” as that was an ATV drama--the English name is Shanghai Godfather. Why did I think it was good? Because in film, they would change the script whenever. Like when I was shooting Once Upon in China III, they would give me the script and maybe I would have to shoot the next day, and they would give me the dialogue today. I would study the dialogue, but when I went to take my place, someone would come over, and the dialogue they had planned on would have been rewritten. So with five or so minutes remaining I learned new dialogue. But I didn’t have to speak it correctly, as they always did voiceover later, so even if I didn’t understand the line, they might just want me to understand the content, so it was fine as long as my expression conveyed the content. But this TV drama [Shanghai Godfather] was better, as the script was written very well, and it followed the script. So I had about two weeks to memorize the script, and then we shot the drama--I could really enter into the role. When that isn’t the case, it’s really hard to get into the role. If you’re just thinking, just remembering the lines--if I tried to do that again at my age, I don’t think I could as my memory has gotten poor. But that [drama] was probably the best. )


不過有啲係,都有啲搞笑嘅經驗經歷囉。即係好似,我記得有一次呢,我唔記得邊套戲,我就扮警察啦,噉我哋就喺尖沙咀彌敦道拍一個鏡頭嘅。噉嗰陣時條街係日頭嘅,條街係好多人嘅,噉就要我拎住隻槍,即係舉起嗰個手槍,跟住就快跑呀,大聲嗌。冇人知道我哋拍緊戲喎,因爲呢啲全部都係,真係行緊街啲人呀。噉我諗真係嚇死佢哋囉,噉嗰個戲鏡頭就擺喺個路中間囉,噉佢哋又冇申請喺嗰度拍戲呀。跟住後尾啲警察嚟捉我哋入差館40囉。我記得嗰陣時我都驚呀,以爲我係每個月就要出一出境,再翻入嚟,就係嗰個我冇個 Visa (簽證),噉就淨係用緊一個...叫做乜嘢,即係 Tourist Visa (旅遊簽證),可以留一個月,噉我都驚佢哋會踢我返美國。

(However, there were also some pretty funny experiences. It seems, I remember there was one time, I don’t remember what movie, I was playing a cop, and we were in Tsim Sha Tsui filming a scene on Nathan Road. It was the middle of the day on the street, there were a lot of people, and I had to pull out a gun, as in raise a pistol, and fire it, very loud. No one knew we were filming, as everyone, they were actually pedestrians. I remember it scared them to death, and this shot was staged in the middle of the road, and they [the crew] had not applied [for a permit] to film. Then in the end the police showed up and took me to the police station. I remember I was very scared then, as I had to leave and re-enter Hong Kong every month then, I didn’t have a visa, I only had, what’s it called? A tourist visa. So I could only stay for a month, and I was scared they would kick me out and send me back to America.)