#42 Guest Episode: Zoe Lam (粵)
- 土生土長 tou2 sang2 tou2 zoeng2 (EXP) Born and raised
- 博士 bok3 si6 (N) Doctor/PhD
- 學位 hok6 wai2 (N) Academic degree
- 畢竟 bat1 ging2 (CON) After all
- 鐵路 tit3 lou6 (N) Railway
- 移民 ji4 man4 (N/V) Immigrant, immigration; to emigrate
- 社群 se5 kwan4 (N) Community
- 詞彙 ci4 wui6 (N) Vocabulary
- 華僑 waa4 kiu4 (N) Overseas Chinese
- 經典 ging1 din2 (N/ADJ) Classic
- 直譯 zik6 jik6 (N) Literal translation
- 特登 dak6 dang1 (ADV) Deliberately, on purpose
- 溝通 kau1 tung1 (N/V) Communication; to communicate
- 創意 cong3 ji3 (N) Creativity
- 表現 biu2 jin6 (N) Performance, expression
- 製造 zai3 zou6 (V) To manufacture, create
- 外來詞 ngoi6 loi4 ci4 (N) Loanword
- 學分 hok6 fan1 (N) Academic credit
- 坊間 fong1 gaan1 (N) Among the public
- 誤解 ng6 gaai2 (N) Misunderstanding
- 建立 gin3 laap6 (V) To establish/build
- 自信心 zi6 seon3 sam1 (N) Self-confidence
- 年齡層 nin4 ling4 cang4 (N) Age group
- 缺失 kyut3 sat1 (N) Deficiency, shortcoming
- 種族 zung2 zuk6 (N) Ethnicity, race
- 流利 lau4 lei6 (ADJ) Fluent
- 遺憾 wai4 ham6 (ADJ/N) Regret
- 彌補 nei4 bou2 (V) To make up for, compensate
- 逐個 zuk6 go3 (ADV) One by one
- 動機 dung6 gei1 (N) Motivation
- 教科書 gaau3 fo1 syu1 (N) Textbook
- 標準 biu1 zeon2 (N) Standard
- 額外 ngaak6 ngoi6 (ADJ) Extra, additional
- 順便 seon6 bin2 (ADV) By the way, conveniently
- 語法 jyu5 faat3 (N) Grammar
- 關懷 gwaan1 waai4 (N) Care, concern
- 唔興 m4 hing1 (ADJ) Not popular, outdated
- 山脈 saan1 mak6 (N) Mountain range
- 鹹水埠 haam4 seoi2 fau6 (N) "Saltwater Port" (old Cantonese term for foreign lands, especially North America)
- 叫法 giu3 faat3 (N) Naming, term
- 反映 faan2 jing2 (V) To reflect, show
- 遷徙 cin1 saai2 (N) Migration
- 坐定定 co5 ding6 ding6 (VC) To sit still
- 相關 soeng1 gwaan1 (ADJ) Related, relevant
- 活學活用 wut6 hok6 wut6 jung6 (EXP) Learn and apply flexibly
- 雜貨店 zaap6 fo3 dim3 (N) Grocery store, bodega
- 實用 sat6 jung6 (ADJ) Practical, useful
- 淨係 zing6 hai6 (ADV) Only, just
- 現金 jin6 gam1 (N) Cash
- 即刻 zik1 hak1 (ADV) Immediately
- 聚集 zeoi6 zaap6 (V) To gather, assemble
- 體驗 tai2 jim6 (N/V) Experience; to experience
- 觸感 zuk1 gam2 (N) Sense of touch
- 嗅覺 cau3 gok3 (N) Sense of smell
- 記憶 gei3 jik1 (N) Memory
- 滿足感 mun5 zuk1 gam2 (N) Sense of satisfaction
- 暫停 zaam6 ting4 (V) To pause, suspend
- 變遷 bin3 cin1 (N) Changes, transition
- 參觀 caam1 gun1 (V/N) To visit (a place); visit
- 關閉 gwaan1 bai3 (V) To close, shut down
- 阻住 zo2 zyu6 (VC) To obstruct, block
- 融納 jung4 naap6 (V) To integrate, assimilate
- 打擾 daa2 jiu2 (V) To disturb, interrupt
- 思考 si1 haau2 (V/N) To think, reflect; thinking
- 鼓勵 gu2 lai3 (V) To encourage
- 涉足 sip3 zuk1 (V) To be involved in, set foot in
- 無家者 mou4 gaa1 ze2 (N) Homeless people
- 吸毒 kap1 duk6 (VO) To take drugs
- 人脈 jan4 mak6 (N) (Human) Network, connections
- 合作 hap6 zok3 (ADJ/N/V) Collaborative; cooperation; to collaborate
- 夥伴 fo2 bun6 (N) Partner
- 提升 tai4 sing1 (V) To improve, enhance
- 着手 zoek6 sau2 (V) To start, begin work on
- 觀察 gun1 caak3 (V/N) To observe; observation
- 促進 cuk1 zeon3 (V) To promote, facilitate
- 研究 jin4 gau3 (N/V) Research; to research
- 角度 gok3 dou6 (N) Perspective, angle
- 官方 gun1 fong1 (ADJ) Official
- 沉浸式 cam4 zam3 sik1 (ADJ) Immersive
- 觀感 gun1 gam2 (N) Perception, impression
- 耳濡目染 ji5 jyu4 muk6 jim5 (EXP) Influenced by what one constantly hears and sees
- 反思 faan2 si1 (V) To reflect, reconsider
- 宗親會 zung1 can1 wui2 (N) Clan association
- 深刻 sam1 hak1 (ADJ) Profound, deep
- 印象 jan3 zoeng6 (N) Impression
- 親戚 can1 cik1 (N) Relatives
- 血脈 hyut3 mak6 (N) Bloodline
- 樓宇 lau4 jyu5 (N) Buildings
- 神秘 san4 bei3 (ADJ) Mysterious
- 組織 zou2 zik1 (N) Organization
- 保留 bou2 lau4 (V) To retain, preserve
- 古舊 gu2 gau6 (ADJ) Old, antique
- 建築 gin3 zuk1 (N) Architecture, building
- 板間房 baan2 gaan3 fong2 (N) Partitioned room
- 推動 teoi1 dung6 (V) To promote, drive forward
- 疫情 jik6 cing4 (N) Epidemic, pandemic
- 感動 gam2 dung6 (ADJ) Moved, touched emotionally
- 背景 bui3 ging2 (N) Background
- 地域 dei6 wik6 (N) Region
- 暫時 zaam6 si4 (ADV/ADJ) For the time being; temporary
- 職員 zik1 jyun4 (N) Staff
- 文物 man4 mat6 (N) Cultural relics
- 延續 jin4 zuk6 (N/V) Continuation; to carry on
- 直情 zik6 cing4 (V) Outright, completely
- 開幕 hoi1 mok6 (N) Opening ceremony
- 歧視 kei4 si6 (N/V) Discrimination; to discriminate
- 排華法 paai4 waa4 faat3 (N) Chinese Exclusion Act
- 撳返 gam6 faan1 (VC) Press back / Undo
- 熱辣 jit6 laat6 (ADJ) Hot (temperature or spicy)
- 出版 ceot1 baan2 (V) To publish
- 全職 cyun4 zik1 (ADJ/ADV) Full-time
- 交換 gaau1 wun6 (V) To exchange
- 兼職 gim1 zik1 (ADJ/N) Part-time; part-time work
- 使命感 si5 ming6 gam2 (N) Sense of mission
- 危機感 ngai4 gei1 gam2 (N) Sense of crisis
- 掙扎 zang1 zaat3 (V) To struggle
- 逼切性 bik1 cit3 sing3 (N) Urgency
- 摸索 mo2 sok3 (V) To explore, experiment
- 學術圈 hok6 seot6 hyun1 (N) Academic circle, academia
- 方向 fong1 hoeng3 (N) Direction
- 砌出嚟 cai3 ceot1 lai4 (VC) Piece together
- 調節 tiu4 zit3 (V) To adjust
- 改進 goi2 zeon3 (V) To Improve
- 欺凌 hei1 ling4 (V/N) To bully; bullying
- 和好 wo4 hou2 (V/N) To reconcile; reconciliation
- 接納 zip3 naap6 (V) To accept (people)
- 補充 bou2 cung1 (V/N) To supplement, add; supplement
- 全面 cyun4 min6 (ADJ) Comprehensive, thorough
- 考慮 hau2 leoi6 (V/N) To consider; consideration
- 取經 ceoi2 ging1 (VO) To learn from experience, seek wisdom (lit. obtain scriptures, concept originated from a Buddhist pilgrimage)
- 演員 jin2 jyun4 (N) Actor, performer
- 收藏 sau1 cong4 (V/N) To Collect; collection
- 效果 haau6 gwo2 (N) Effect/Outcome
- 滿座 mun5 zo6 (ADJ) Full house (e.g., theater or event)
- 糖水 tong4 seoi2 (N) Sweet soup (a type of Cantonese dessert)
- 投入 tau4 jap6 (V) To engage, invest (emotionally or physically)
- 廣播 gwong2 bo3 (N/V) Broadcasting; to broadcast
- 字幕 zi6 mok6 (N) Subtitles
- 頻道 pan4 dou6 (N) Channel (TV, radio, etc.)
- 展覽 zin2 laam5 (N) Exhibition
- 人頭稅 jan4 tau4 seoi3 (N) Head tax
- 收據 sau1 geoi3 (N) Receipt
- 批准 pai1 zeon2 (N/V) Approval; to approve
- 震撼 zan3 ham6 (ADJ/N) Stunning; impact
- 假名 gaa2 meng2 (N) Alias, fake name
- 證明 zing3 ming4 (N/V) Identification, proof; to prove
- 文件 man4 gin2 (N) Document
- 公民 gung1 man4 (N) Citizen
- 權利 kyun4 lei6 (N) Rights
- 呈現 cing4 jin6 (V) To present, show
- 導賞團 dou6 soeng2 tyun4 (N) Guided tour
- 解說 gaai2 syut3 (N) Explanation, interpretation
- 回應 wui4 jing3 (V/N) To respond; response
- 主題 zyu2 tai4 (N) Theme, topic
- 複雜 fuk1 zaap6 (ADJ) Complicated, complex
- 圖象 tou4 zoeng6 (N) Image, illustration
- 卻步 koek3 bou6 (V) To hesitate
Raymond: 好，我哋今日呢都好開心啦，我哋呢一季請啲嘉賓啦好多都好特別嘅。今日呢位嘉賓呢其實都係我嘅同事，我哋見面好多，交流好多。咁呢佢就係林慧雯博士 Zoe Lam。咁呢因為我哋傾計呢就傾好多啦，所以今日呢我就畀 Cameron 國榮呢就同佢講多啲嘢。
(Well, today we’re very happy, as many of the guests that we’ve invited on [the show] this season are quite special. In fact, today’s guest is actually my colleague–we see a lot of each other and interact a lot. Her name is Dr. Zoe Lam. Because we chat a lot together, today I’ll let Cameron do more of the talking with her.)
Zoe: 你好
(Hello!)
Cameron: 歡迎 歡迎。
(Welcome, welcome.)
Zoe: 好開心可以上嚟粵語白白講，我聽咗好多集喇，第一次做嘉賓。
(I’m very happy to be able to come on Chatty Cantonese. I’ve heard many episodes, and this is my first time being a guest.)
Cameron: 係呀，同埋我第一次同 Zoe 傾計，所以我都好開心。噉我哋每一次都有一樣就係第一個問題，就係你同粵語有咩關係呀？你係咩樣講粵語嘅人呢?
(Yes, and this is my first time chatting with Zoe, so I’m also very happy. Now, every time we always have the same first question, which is, what is your relationship with Cantonese? What sort of Cantonese speaker are you?)
Zoe: 噉我呢個就係香港土生土長1嘅香港人啦，噉其實我係嚟加拿大讀我嘅博士2學位3嘅。噉之前呢我一路都係香港生活啦，噉所以我嘅母語就係粵語啦。噉其實我以前喺香港係教英文嘅，噉嚟咗加拿大之後反而有機會去教粵語。噉我就 2014 年開始呢喺溫哥華唐人街嗰度教粵語啦，噉 2018 年呢開始就喺卑斯大學嗰度教，就同 Raymond 做咗同事，就一路教到依家。
(I’m a Hongkonger born and raised, but I came to Canada to study for my PhD. Before that, I always lived in Hong Kong, so my mother tongue is Cantonese. Actually, I previously taught English in Hong Kong, but I got the opportunity to teach Cantonese after coming to Canada. In 2014 I started teaching Cantonese in Vancouver Chinatown, and then in 2018 I started teaching at UBC as one of Raymond’s colleagues, and I’ve continued to teach up to the present.)
Cameron: 作為一個香港人，就係你啱啱開始喺加拿大教書嘅時候，對加拿大就係講嘅廣東話有咩睇法呢？你覺得加拿大講嘅廣東話同香港，依家香港講嘅廣東話有咩嘅唔同嘅？
(As a Hongkonger, when you first started teaching in Canada, what did you think of the Cantonese spoken in Canada? What did you think was different between the Cantonese spoken in Canada and that currently spoken in Hong Kong?)
Zoe: 其實大致上呢都係相通嘅兩種粵語，噉因為畢竟4我哋睇吓加拿大講粵語嘅人喺邊度嚟嘅呢？噉其實呢都有幾代唔同嘅人嘅，噉如果講到最早嗰一代就會係真係講到 19 世紀嘅時候起鐵路5嗰一班人啦，嗰一班人就係四邑地區嘅人多嘅，即係譬如台山、恩平、開平、新會嚟嘅人比較多啦，噉佢哋講嘅粵語就唔係，我而家講嗰種粵語啦，佢哋講四邑話。
(Actually, they are for the most part two mutually intelligible forms of Cantonese, as where did Cantonese speakers in Canada come from? There are in fact different generations of people, so if you’re talking about the earliest generation in the 19th century that helped with building the railroad, they generally came from the “Seiyap” district, meaning people from Toisan, Onping, Hoiping, and Sanwooi were relatively greater in number, and the type of Cantonese that they spoke was not the same as the Cantonese I am speaking now–they spoke sei3 jap1 waa2 [“Sze Yup dialect”].)
噉到到 60 年代之後啦，到到 90 年代就有好多香港嚟嘅移民6啦，噉所以嗰一班移民呢就係講香港嘅粵語嘅，噉跟住之後就多咗中國嚟嘅移民啦，噉就譬如有好多廣州呀、或者中山呀、仲有係啦即係廣東其他地區嘅移民，噉所以佢哋就會係講廣州話咁樣啦。咁當然仲有其他嘅粵語社群7嘅，即係譬如馬來西亞啦，星加坡啦都有，汶萊嘅我都有遇過。
(After the 60s through the 90s there were a lot of Hong Kong immigrants, so those immigrants generally spoke Hong Kong Cantonese. Later there were more immigrants from mainland China, such as from Guangzhou, Zhongshan–there were still many immigrants from Guangdong province–so they spoke Cantonese. And of course there were also other Cantonese-speaking communities–I’ve also run into people from Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei.)
噉我哋基本上都係能可以用粵語傾到計嘅，噉但係呢詞彙8可能會有啲唔同啦。噉係老華僑9呢佢哋會有一啲嘅，外來字啦即係英文嘅外來字。係嗰個譯法有啲唔同啦，即係最經典10嘅就係西蘭花，就係香港叫西蘭花啦，咁喺加拿大呢邊呢，就叫做百家利嘅，用英文直譯11嗰譯音。噉譬如我都見過仲有 apartment 噉樣樣啦，通常喺香港就會真係寫公寓呀，係咪公寓呀我都唔知。因為香港嘅預設 default 嘅樓就係 apartment，所以冇特登12一個詞彙去講啦。
(We basically might be able to use Cantonese to chat, but there can also be some vocabulary differences. For older Chinese immigrants, they will have more English loanwords. The translation might be different, with a classic example being how in Hong Kong broccoli is called sai1-laan4-faa1, but in Canada it is called baak3-gaa1-lei2, transliterating it directly from English. Then there’s “apartment,” which in Hong Kong is written as gung1-jyu6, but because the default buildings in Hong Kong are apartments, you don’t necessarily say a special word for it.)
但係我喺呢邊嘅報紙就見到柏文呀呢啲字，我初初都覺得好有趣嘅呢啲字。同埋呢個即係 intersection 啲十字路口呢，其實喺香港通常我哋都會話咩野街同乜嘢街嘅交界啦，噉我嚟咗溫哥華呢就會聽到啲人講 Main 街夾 Broadway，即係呢個夾字呢我都係嚟咗加拿大之後先至聽到，噉我覺得都幾有趣嘅呢啲用法，但係我哋溝通13完全冇問題。即係我譬如聽到啲人講 Main 街夾 Broadway，噉我即刻就明白佢講緊乜嘢啦，噉我覺得係一種社群
一種創意14嘅表現15，佢自己嘅語言係會用自己嘅創意去製造16一啲詞彙出嚟啦，噉我覺得都幾有趣嘅。
(However, in newspapers here I have seen the term paak3-man4. At first I thought it was quite interesting. Then there is the term “intersection.” In Hong Kong, we’ll refer to the “gaau1-gaai3 of such-and-such street and such-and-such street.” However, in Vancouver I’ve heard people say “Main gaai1 gaap3 Broadway” [Note: gaap3 can act as a conjunction in Cantonese to mean “and” while also giving a sense of things pressing together], and I only heard this “gaap3” term upon coming to Canada. I think this usage is quite interesting, though we don’t have any trouble communicating. For instance, if I heard someone say “Main gaai1 gaap3 Broadway,” I would know what they were saying. I think it is sort of an expression of the creativity of a social group, with their own language using its own creativity to produce words–I think it’s quite interesting.)
Cameron: 係呀係呀，我覺得特別係嗰啲外來詞17，因為可能香港都有好多嘅，但係香港嘅外來語同加拿大嘅可能唔同嘅，同埋同美國嘅都唔同嘅，但係你都有兩種好可能唔同嘅經驗，就係喺大學教書同埋喺唐人街教書，就係呢啲地方有啲唔同係唔係呀？
(Yes, yes, I think particularly in the case of loanwords, perhaps Hong Kong has many, but Hong Kong’s loanwords are not the same as those of Canada, or those of America. However, you also have two perhaps different experiences, which is teaching at a university and teaching in the Chinatown community–these two places are quite different, correct?)
Zoe: 噉主要係學生嘅背景唔同，因為係唐人街嘅粵語班呢就咩年齡嘅人都有嘅，即係由青年到到 80 歲嘅學生我都有接觸過啦。噉喺大學呢就通常學生都會係即係 20 幾歲呀呢個年齡層囉，噉所以喺唐人街接觸到嘅學生群呢係多元化一啲嘅，所以佢哋嘅學習需要都會唔同啦。
(The main difference is that the students’ backgrounds are different, as in the Chinatown Cantonese class there are people from all sorts of age groups–I have students ranging from their teens all the way to 80 years old. Meanwhile, at university, most of the students are around 20 years of age, so there is a bit more [age] diversity with the Chinatown students and their learning needs are different.)
Cameron: 可唔可以講多啲呢啲，就係唔一樣嘅要求定係唔一樣嘅需要嘅？
(Could you perhaps say a bit more–the different requirements or different needs?)
Zoe: 噉喺唐人街嗰班呢，其實因為我哋唔係即係讀呢個班嚟攞學分18畢業嘅，噉所以呢唐人街嗰班嘅同學呢，就會係當呢個班係即係一個興趣班噉樣，即係周末呢去搵一啲嘢去學下，即係譬如你可能周末去學踩溜冰呀、或者打曲棍球呀噉，有同學選擇嚟學廣東話噉樣啦，噉所以嗰個學習氣氛呢就有啲唔同嘅。
(In the case of the Chinatown class, because they aren’t taking the class for credits in order to graduate [from university], they are just doing it purely out of interest. They’re coming to study on the weekends, similar to how you might take skating lessons or hockey lessons on the weekend; they’ve chosen to come study Cantonese, so the learning atmosphere is different.)
即係呢唔會話啲同學好緊張測驗考試，因為其實我哋一般就係冇測驗考試啦。噉所以呢其實嗰一班呢我就主要係想令到學生對粵語有興趣啦，令到佢哋覺得呢一樣嘢係可以學到嘅一門語言。因為有好多坊間19嘅人呢都會有一種誤解20呢就，哎呀廣東話係全世界最難嘅語言啦，即係甚至啲母語者即係香港嗰啲人都自己噉樣同啲朋友講嘅：嘩！你要學廣東話好難嘅你唔好學啦！噉其實我喺唐人街嗰班主要就係想令到啲同學唔好有呢個諗法啦，即係令到佢哋覺得其實係可以學到嘅廣東話。即係其實你識講芥蘭、你識講點心，即係其實英文裏面有啲字都已經係廣東話嚟嘅啦，即係其實你學一學個聲調噉你已經就係廣東話，其實你已經講緊嘅喇，即係其實係想學生建立21佢哋嘅自信心22啦。
(That’s to say, students don’t get nervous about exams, though for the most part that’s because we don’t really have exams. So for that class, I just want my students to get my students interested in Cantonese and get them to feel that it is a language that they can learn, as there are people in many places with the mistaken impression that Cantonese is the hardest language in the world–there are even people in Hong Kong for whom Cantonese is their mother tongue who say this to their friends: “Wow! Studying Cantonese is too hard, you shouldn’t study it.” My goal with the Chinatown class is for my students to not hold that belief and instead get them to feel that they can learn it. You know how to say gaai3 laan2, you know how to say dim sum, so actually English already has some Cantonese in it. If you just study the sounds bit by bit that’s already Cantonese, you’re already speaking it, so actually what I want is for my students to build up their self-confidence.)
噉因為嗰個年齡層23比較廣啲啦，噉其實我都接觸過一啲年紀比較大嘅學生啦。噉佢哋呢係主要係因為佢哋呢已經喺生活在世咗咁多年啦，佢哋有少少覺得呢缺失24咗一啲嘢，因為呢佢哋係華裔1嘅，即係佢哋種族25上呢佢哋係華裔嘅人，但係佢哋呢識得講英文啦，當然佢哋係最流利26嘅語言就係英文啦，噉佢覺得呢人生在世咁多年呢竟然都唔識得講自己嘅祖裔語言啦，即係英文我哋講個 heritage language，噉可能做咗 60 幾 70 年人都唔識講粵語有一種嘅遺憾27啦，即係佢哋好想去彌補28某一種缺失囉。噉所以對於呢一種學生呢，我就其實都會鼓勵佢哋即係學到幾多得幾多啦，即係就算你可能唔係好流利呀，或者講唔到好似母語者水平噉咪慢慢學啦，即係你唔好覺得係太遲啦。
(Because the age range is quite large, I’ve actually encountered some rather elderly students. It’s usually because they’ve been alive for many years but they feel that they are lacking something. They are ethnic Chinese who speak English, with English being their most fluent language, but they feel that after all these years they don’t know how to speak their heritage language. They might be 60 or 70-something and feel a sense of regret over not being able to speak Cantonese, and they want to be able to make up for that. For this sort of student, I just recommend that they study as much as they can. You might not become very fluent or make it to the level of a native speaker, but don’t think that it’s too late.)
即係因為嗰啲婆婆會覺得，哎呀而家學已經太遲啦，噉其實我盡量就係想佢哋覺得唔係太遲嘅，即係其實都可以而家開始㗎，即係慢慢嚟囉，即係逐個29逐個字學啦，即係就係逐個逐個字嘅發音係慢慢學，噉其實都學到嘅喎。即係啲婆婆即係佢哋初頭以為：哎呀我老啦，學乜嘢都唔識㗎啦。其實佢哋慢慢講吓，有多啲年輕人同佢哋傾吓計呀，甚至打吓麻雀呀，即係其實一邊打麻雀呢都可以學到嘅喎，即係東南西北呀、 1 萬、 2 萬 、3 萬呢啲字佢哋都會學到，噉就令到學生係有嗰個自信心同埋學習動機30多啲囉。
(Those old women might think, “Aiya, it’s already too late,” but as much as possible I want them to not think it’s too late. You can always start now and proceed slowly, studying the pronunciation of one character at a time–that is doable. Some older women think at the beginning, “Aiya, I’m old, I can’t learn anything.” But if they speak slowly, if there are more young people to talk with, even if they play mahjong, they can learn Cantonese–like dung1 naam4 sai1 bak1 or jat1 maan6, ji6 maan6, saam1 maan6, that can all be learned. I just want my students to have that sense of self-confidence and the motivation to study.)
噉卑詩大學嘅同學呢，就主要係年青人多啲嘅，即係19至25歲呢個年齡層啦。噉佢哋就冇嗰個或者人生在世咁多年有一個遺憾，噉就冇呢個諗法，但係佢哋都會想去同佢哋屋企嘅爺爺、嫲嫲、公公、婆婆，可以用到粵語傾計囉。噉我就主要上堂係令到佢哋對粵語有興趣，同埋令到佢哋覺得係現實生活裏面係一個可以用到嘅語言啦。譬如呢我上堂，除咗即係我哋有個教科書31㗎啦，噉教科書都係啲好標準32嗰啲嗰啲題材啦，即係天氣呀、時間呀、你興趣呀、噉我有時候會額外33呢教一啲書本冇嘅嘢嘅，即係譬如我就教呢 “How do you say I love you without saying I love you”，即係我會教佢哋呢同啲老人家講「天氣凍着多件衫喇」、「哦，飲多啲水喇」，噉我順便34又教緊一個語法35嘅，我真係「飲多啲水」啦，即係唔係「多飲啲水」，即係其實我係教啲語法嘅，就譬如「着多件衫」、「飲多啲水」「瞓多啲覺」、「做多啲運動」噉其實呢啲都係同你屋企嘅老人家表達關懷36嘅一種方法啦，噉所以我都會係教一種文化啦。即係好多人都會話華人唔興37講「我愛你」，即係我哋係行動嘅，即係見你凍畀衫你着，或者見你肚餓煮個麵俾你食啦，呢啲嘢呢就係一啲文化上嘅知識囉，噉所以我覺得喺卑詩大學教語言除咗教語言本身之外呢，都係教緊一種文化啦。
(College students at UBC tend to be younger, around 19 to 25 years old. They don’t have the regrets that come with being alive for so long, meaning they don’t think the same [as the elderly students about learning Cantonese]. However, they still want to talk to their grandparents in Cantonese. So when it comes to class, I want to help build their interest in Cantonese and help them feel that it is a language that they can use in their own lives. For instance, [I teach them] the stuff that isn’t in their textbook—we use a textbook in class that has many standard topics like weather, the time, hobbies, etc. But there is a lot of stuff that the book doesn’t have, like, “How do you say I love you without saying I love you?” For instance, I teach that with older folks they can say, “It’s cold, wear a bit more clothing,” or “drink a bit more water.” At the same time I’m teaching a bit of grammar, as in I’m saying “drink a bit more water,” not, “more drink a bit water” [NOTE: the literal translation of the correct grammar pattern in Cantonese is drink-more-a bit-water]. As for “Wear a bit more clothes,” “drink a bit more water,” “sleep a bit more,” and “exercise a bit more,” these are actually ways of expressing that you care for the older generation, so I am also teaching some culture. Many people say that Chinese don’t say “I love you” and rather use their actions, like giving you some clothes when they see you’re cold, making food for you when they see you’re hungry–this is all cultural background knowledge, so when I’m teaching language to students at UBC, I’m also teaching them culture.)
Cameron: 嗯對於呢個文化嘅方面, Raymond 同我就係經常講嘅 topic 就係好多人學廣東話嘅時候，就係佢哋覺得廣東話理想嘅地方就係香港。佢哋覺得，哦就係廣東話就算係香港嘅文化。但係温哥華都有自己廣東話嘅歷史呀，就係廣東話嘅背景温哥華嘅文化。噉你哋會唔會就係討論呢啲點可以用廣東話更了解你自己就係呢個温哥華嘅文化、温哥華嘅歷史呀？
(In terms of this cultural aspect, a topic that Raymond and I talk about a lot is how many people think of Hong Kong as the idealized place of Cantonese. They think that Cantonese is equivalent to Hong Kong culture. However, Vancouver also has its own history and Cantonese culture. Do you ever talk about using Cantonese to better understand Vancouver and its history?)
Zoe: 嗯，係，講到温哥華嘅歷史，噉其實呢華人喺温哥華嘅發展呢，都係有個重要嘅地位，之前即係起鐵路，係好多華人喺令到西岸東岸呢可以有鐵路，可以運輸方面得到改善，唔需要經過嗰個洛磯山脈38啦，就係唔需要爬洛基山脈都可以去到東西岸東岸可以交流咁樣啦。噉其實呢初時温哥華發展呢，温哥華未係叫温哥華嘅喎，即係温哥華呢係叫鹹水埠39嘅喎。即係好多年青人都唔知道。噉譬如呢，即係域多利即係 Victoria 呢以前係叫大埠嘅喎，噉而 Westminsters 係叫二埠嘅。噉其實呢而家我哋就有啲新嘅名畀咗呢啲地方啦，即係 Victoria 叫域多利呀，或者 Westminsters 叫做新西敏咁樣啦。
(Yes, in terms of Vancouver’s historical development, Chinese people have played a special role, such as with the railroad–many Chinese made it so that the West and East coasts could have a railroad, improving transportation and making it so that one didn’t have to climb a mountain range to get between the two coasts. In the beginning, Vancouver wasn’t called Wan1 go1 waa4 [in Cantonese], it was called Haam4 seoi2 fau6. Many young people don’t know this. Or also Victoria was called Daai6 fau6 and Westminster was called Ji6 fau6. Recently, new names have been given to these places, like Victoria is called Wik6 do1 lei2, and Westminster is called San1 sai1 man5.)
噉但係其實早期嘅華人呢係有一種唔同嘅叫法40，噉而呢一個叫法呢係反映41到當時呢啲城市嘅發展係點樣，同華人遷徙42嘅歷史係點樣嘅。因為其實Victoria 域多利嘅唐人街係最舊嘅，全加拿大最舊嘅唐人街，噉所以佢咪係一埠囉。噉而 Westminsters 叫二埠都係因為當時其實都有一個有發展得幾好嘅唐人街，但係之後有大火，噉而家就冇咗啦。噉但係如果你睇到呢個叫法一埠、二埠其實係可以知道多啲當時中國發展嘅歷史啦。噉而温哥華呢以前係叫鹹水埠嘅，因為呢個真係有鹹水嘅地方噉樣樣。噉而家可能啲後生嘅唔知道。噉我覺得如果係温哥華本土嘅人呢都應該了解吓呢一段歷史嘅。
(However, early Chinese had different ways of naming these places that reflected their development and the immigration of Chinese people. Because Victoria’s Chinatown was the oldest–the oldest Chinatown in all of Canada–so that’s exactly why it was called the “First Port” [Note: fau6 means “port”], and Westminster was called “Second Port” because it also had a developed Chinatown. However, there was later a great fire [in Westminster], so that Chinatown is gone. However, if you look at this naming convention of “First Port,” “Second Port,” and so forth, you can know something about Chinese development history. As for why Vancouver came to be called “Salt Water Port,” that’s because it’s indeed a place of salty water. Some young people might not know this now. I think local Vancouver Chinese should know this bit of history.)
Cameron: 呢度同就係好多人可能之前講嘅係金山，但係而家係三藩市係咪呀？
(Sort of like how San Francisco used to be called “Gold Mountain” [Gam1 saan1/Gau6 gam1 saan1] by many people but is now called Saam1 faan4 si5?)
Zoe: 係喇係喇，真係有故事囉背後。
(Yes, there’s really a story behind it.)
Cameron: 係呀係呀，同埋你哋嘅就唐人街嘅課程就係好特別，我覺得第一部分就係教書係咪？或者就係上堂，但係第二部分就係 field study，你可唔可以再講下呢個 field study 係咩嘢呀?
(Yes, and your program in Chinatown is very special. I think the first part involves more studying from books or formal class, while the second part is more of a “field study.” Could you say more about this “field study?”)
Zoe: 嗯，好。噉我哋唐人街嗰一班呢係上兩個鐘嘅堂啦，噉第一個鐘就係好似普通你會想像到上堂嘅情況啦，即係我哋係個班我哋坐定定43，跟住聽老師講嘢，噉老師就會教大家發音呀、語法呀噉樣。噉第二個鐘頭就係你所講嘅 field trip 啦，噉我哋就會去唐人街裏面一個相關44嘅地方，即係同當日討論嘅題目相關嘅地方。譬如如果某一日嗰個學習嘅題目係買菜，噉第一個鐘呢我哋上堂就會學啲菜名呀、芥蘭呀、白菜呀、番茄呀噉樣叫單字啦，同埋會學啲同買賣有關嘅句子啦，即係我「請問呢個幾多錢呀？」「點賣呀？」「幾蚊一磅呀？」噉樣呢啲句子。
(Sure. The Chinatown class is two hours long, with the first hour being pretty regular in terms of attending a class, with everyone sitting in place and listening to the teacher, with the teacher teaching things like pronunciation and grammar. The second hour is what you referred to as a “field trip,” where we go to a place related to the topic we discussed in class that day. For instance, if on a certain day the topic is buying vegetables, then in class we’ll go over the names of certain vegetables, like broccoli, cabbage, tomatoes, and so forth, and students will also study relevant sentence structures, like “How much is this?” [NOTE: Zoe mentions two ways of asking this question in a row] and “How much per pound?”)
第二個鐘頭呢我哋就要同學活學活用45啦，噉我哋就會帶同學去一個雜貨店46嗰度，即係有賣菜呀、有賣食物呀、飲品呀，即係一間好大嘅舖頭，噉嗰啲店員都係講廣東話嘅。噉我哋就要啲同學呢去嗰個舖頭嗰度買啲嘢啦，噉就畀錢嘅時候呢要同嗰啲店舖要同嗰啲售貨員交流嘅，都係要講吓廣東話交流呀，即係講吓「你要唔要袋呀？」，「你有冇帶自己嘅袋呀？」即係呢啲就好實用47嘅字啦，或者「你收唔收卡呀？」、「你係唔係淨係48用現金49？」噉佢哋呢一定要用下呢啲學到嘅句子，即係活學活用，即刻50用。
(During the second half, we want students to combine learning with real life, so we take students to general stores that sell things like vegetables and foodstuffs, a really big sort of store, and the workers there speak Cantonese. When students buy something and pay, we want them to talk to the cashier and use Cantonese to communicate. Questions like, “Do you want a bag?” or “Did you bring your own bag?” are quite practical, as are things like, “Do you accept credit cards?” or “Do you only take cash?” They certainly need to use the sentences that they learned, thus combining study with real life and using it immediately.)
噉買完嘢之後呢，我哋就會喺一個地方嗰度聚集51，噉我哋做啲好似 “show and tell” 噉嘅就係大家去買咗個冬瓜，噉你就睇住個冬瓜同同學解釋「哦呢一個呢，係一個冬瓜」，「噉我買呢個冬瓜嘅時候係畀咗三蚊」，真係要講吓自己買咗啲咩啦，噉因為呢其實喺一個學習體驗52裏面，如果你係有一啲我哋講唔同 senses，即係你 visually 嘅視覺上見到個冬瓜啦，然之後你手摸到個冬瓜啦，即係呢個係 tactile 嘅 sense 即係你觸感53啦，即係摸到個冬瓜。
(Once everyone has bought something, we gather together and do something similar to “show and tell.” If everyone bought a winter melon, then you need to watch classmates explain the winter melon–”Well this, this is a winter melon,” or “When I bought this winter melon I paid three dollars.” You really need to talk about what you bought, because in the context of a learning experience, if you talk about different senses, like you visually see the winter melon and then go on to touch it, then you have a tactile sense of it through touching the winter melon.)
然之後你去嗰個店嗰個嗰啲華人店嗰啲味啦，即係唔同菜呀，唔同三個加起嚟嘅味，係一個嗅覺54嘅體驗啦。噉你返到我近日食個冬瓜係個味覺嘅體驗，噉其實你有啲唔同嘅真係感知上嘅記憶55呢，係會加強到你學習呢個語言嘅記憶。噉所以我哋希望呢個體驗可以令學生去覺得佢哋真係可以活學活用嘅，佢哋同售貨員溝通到嘅時候會帶畀佢哋一種滿足感56啦，而呢種滿足感就會推動佢哋繼續學習啦。
(As for the smells of Chinese shops, the vegetables they sell aren’t the same, so when you blend three different smells together, that’s an olfactory experience. Then when it comes to my recent experience of eating winter melon, that’s a gustatory experience, and then you think of different memories, and this strengthens your memories of a language. We hope that this experience helps students feel that they learn through practical application and that interacting with the cashiers can give them a sense of satisfaction. This sense of satisfaction can push them to study further.)
Cameron: 哦，同埋呢個課程已經有就係八年多嘅歷史係咪呀？
(And this program has already been running for 8 years, correct?)
Zoe: 因為第一次係 2014 年，噉當中八年呢都唔係話每年都有噉嘅，即係譬如疫情嘅時候我哋就暫停57咗。噉但係第一次係 2014 年，噉所以其實我哋都見證住唐人街嘅變遷58啦，因為我哋都發覺越嚟越難搵多啲舖頭畀同學去參觀59呀。因為有好多舖頭都做唔住生意呀，噉就係唯有關閉60呀，噉我哋一直都有一個困難，就去搵啲可以畀咁多人一齊去嘅店舖。因為我哋都成 25 個同學㗎，噉而有好多舖頭都好細，我哋唔想阻住61佢哋做生意囉。噉要搵一啲咁大嘅舖頭融納62到咁多同學，又唔會打擾63到人嘅係好難囉，噉呢個都係我哋要面對嘅困難，所以我哋都喺度思考64緊點樣面對。
(The first time was in 2014, but we didn’t hold the program every year and had to temporarily pause, such as during the pandemic. However, with the first time being in 2014, we’ve actually been able to witness the evolution of Chinatown, as we’ve found it harder and harder to find shops to take students to. A lot of shops haven’t been able to keep up their business, so all they can do is to close shop. That’s why we keep having this difficulty of finding shops where we can bring a bunch of people together. We have 25 students altogether, but most shops are relatively small and we’d just get in the way of their business. That’s why we need to find a relatively larger shop that can fit so many students. It’s hard to avoid disturbing people, so that’s another issue we face, and we’ve been also thinking about how to deal with that.)
Cameron: 噉我覺得有啲我哋嘅聽眾可能喺其他大城市有自己嘅唐人街，可能想就係找辦法做自己噉樣嘅課程，或者就係噉樣嘅 program，你對呢啲聽眾有咩建議呀？
(I think that many of our listeners in other big cities have Chinatowns of their own. Perhaps they want to find a way to do this sort of program on their own–what advice do you have?)
Zoe: 噉我都會鼓勵65呢啲聽眾去試下辦呢啲課程啦，噉因為呢，第一個好處就係同學可以活學活用啦；第二呢就係其實可以令到學生呢去涉足66吓呢啲商店。因為呢，有好多人其實可能佢住喺嗰個城市好多年，但係其實唔會點樣去唐人街嘅，因為有好多人話喺唐人街好危險呀、好多無家者67呀、好多人吸毒68呀、噉其實係唔係？都係嘅。但係又唔係真係講得咁危險，即係當然有某啲街，即係你最好唔好自己一個人去啦。噉但係其實某一啲商店呢都係安全嘅，即係你去嗰啲商店係即係嗰啲人唔會打攪你噉樣啦，噉都係幫咗一啲本土嘅小生意，即係去支持吓一啲本土嘅生意，我覺得同埋都係支持唐人街嘅經濟啦。
(I would encourage listeners to try setting up this sort of program. The first benefit is that students can learn through practical application of language. The second is that it gets students to enter a shop. That’s because for many students who might have lived in the city for many years, they might never have actually gone to Chinatown, as many people say that it is dangerous, that it has unhoused people, and that many people are using drugs, but is that really the case? Sure, to a certain extent. However, it’s not that dangerous. There are of course streets that you’d best not go down on your own, but there are shops there that are quite safe where no one will bother you and by going you can help support local businesses, and I think you can support the Chinatown economy.)
噉如果有朋友想即舉辦一啲類似嘅課程，噉首先就係要聯絡吓呢啲社區嘅商鋪，即係你有冇呢個人脈69呀。噉其實我哋嘅課程搞得即係算係成功都係因為我哋嘅合作70夥伴71呢，係同呢啲商鋪有好好嘅關係啦，所以我哋提到話我哋要帶 25 個人嚟，佢哋都好歡迎啦，冇覺得我哋阻住佢啦，噉就首先你有一個網絡啦。噉第二呢就係即係要有老師啦，即係老師培訓方面都係好重要啦，即係你要訓練一班老師係可以比較令課堂生動一啲啦，即係可以正面噉樣提升72同學對語言嘅興趣，噉所以我覺得呢兩方面着手73去諗下點樣去辦啦。
(If someone wants to start a similar program, then they first need to get in touch with community businesses, the local business group if you have it [like a Chinatown chamber of commerce]. Our program has been so successful because of the partners we cooperate with--we have very good relations with the shops. If we say we want to bring 25 people, they are very welcoming and don’t think we are getting in their way. So first you need to be in communication. The second thing you need is a teacher, and the teacher’s pedagogical style is very important. You want a teacher who can make the class more lively, someone who can directly raise students’ interest in the language. I think you need to think about these two aspects if you are going to set about this.)
Cameron: Raymond 你有冇啲問題呀?
(Raymond, do you have any questions?)
Raymond: 我就唔止係問題嘅，噉因為呢，呢一個唐人街嘅粵語班呀，噉其實我都有參與嘅，噉我嘅身份呢，即係喺疫情前嘅時候啦，就好似呀變咗 Zoe 嘅助教噉樣，其實我去觀察74就多過真係去教呀點樣，但係呢個體驗就正如頭先 Zoe 分享啦其實有好多嘅，即係好多嘅好處，唔係淨係對學生有好處啦，噉對當然佢哋學咗之後會同返屋企人去溝通，對佢哋嘅家庭甚至家族啦，噉會會促進75咗佢哋嘅交流溝通啦。
(I won’t just ask a question, as I’ve taken part in the Chinatown Cantonese program. My role–this was to before the pandemic–was to be Zoe’s assistant, though I spent more time observing than actually teaching. But this experience, as Zoe just described it, has many advantages. It’s not just beneficial for the students, who can go home after studying and communicate with their family members, but also advance their communication with their entire families.)
另外對於社區啦，噉呢個亦都係幫助社區，除咗係經濟之外啦，亦都係大家對於文化歷史更加了解。噉因為而家我自己都係好似 Cameron，噉我哋都係亦都係一個學生身份，或者研究76嘅身份呢，噉喺教育嗰個角度77嚟睇呢個係一個我哋叫做 place-based instruction，即係我唔知中文譯做咩，冇官方78嘅翻譯，就好似一個在地喺一個沉浸式79嘅教學呢，佢嘅好處就係 Zoe 頭先提到對你好多方面嘅觀感80上面你去增強你嗰個學習之外呢，同埋你係沉浸喺嗰個文化歷史環境裏面呢。
(There’s also the community, it’s beneficial to the community. Besides helping the economy, it also helps people to better understand history. At the moment I’m like Cameron, a student but also a researcher. From a pedagogical perspective, we call this place-based instruction, though I don’t know how to translate that into Chinese–there’s no formal translation. It’s basically immersive education in a place, and its advantages are as Zoe just described, strengthening your education through a variety of impressions while also immersing in a cultural and historical environment.)
呢一個亦都係好似有少少耳濡目染81噉樣呀，嗰個體驗呢就除咗係嗰個觀感上面嘅體驗之外啦，你亦都係去不斷去反思82去諗下呢個同我個人嘅歷史、同社區嘅歷史、同國家嘅歷史嗰個連繫我覺得好緊要。因為我其實最深刻有幾個活動除咗去買嘢之外呢，噉我哋都去譬如去社區、譬如去圖書館呀、老人院呀、嗰啲宗親會83呀噉樣呢，同嗰度嘅成員去交流嘅呢個呢，我係好深刻84嘅印象85啦。或者呀 Zoe 都可以講多少少，即係呢方面嗰個課程係點樣做？
(You also become gradually influenced by the environment. Besides the experiential dimension, what I think is important is that you also come to reflect repeatedly on the relationship between your personal history, the history of the community, and the history of the country. Many of the most impactful experiences, beyond going shopping, include going to the community, the library, nursing homes, and family name associations and conversing with members–that’s what I have the strongest impression of. Zoe, perhaps you could talk more about the program in this regard?)
Zoe: 噉首先我講下啲宗親會係啲乜嘢嚟啦？咁就係早期華人呢嚟到溫哥華真係冇咩嘅朋友呀親人呀，噉所以呢佢哋通常就會去返自己嗰個姓嘅宗親會，即係如果你姓黃呢，噉你就去搵黃氏宗親會嘅人呀。噉當然當中都可能會有啲人係真係你嘅親戚86嘅，真係有血脈87關係啦。噉但係其實好多都係冇血脈關係只不過都係姓同一個姓啦，或者係嚟自同一個埠噉樣樣啦。噉呢啲宗親會就係喺唐人街，好多時呢係喺二樓以上嘅，噉呢啲嘅樓宇88呢你行過你係冇諗過要入去睇嘅，即係對於好多唔係華人嘅居民嚟講呢，呢啲宗親會係一啲好神秘89嘅組織90嚟嘅，即係呢佢哋係二樓啦，跟住呢你又久唔久會聽到嗰啲麻雀聲呀，又有人傾計噉。
(How about I first talk about the family name association? Early on when Chinese first arrived in Vancouver, they really didn’t have any friends or relatives, so they would go to an association for people with the same family name. For instance, if your last name was Wong, then you would go find the Wong family association. Of course, among the people there there might be actual family members with a real blood relationship. However, most did not share a blood relationship but rather just the same last name or the same hometown. These family name associations are in Chinatown, and many of them are on the second floor of buildings or higher, so when you walk by these buildings you wouldn’t think of going in to take a look, meaning that to non-Chinese residents these family name associations are very mysterious. They are up on the second floor, and from time to time you hear the sounds of mahjong and chatting.)
其實佢哋係一啲你覺得係你，可能你人生唔會入去嘅地方呀，即係一個迷嚟嘅。究竟啲人係度做咩？噉我哋呢個唐人街嘅班呢，就有一個 field trip 呢係去參觀一啲嘅宗親會嘅。噉就上到去上面呢，其實係有某啲地方呢，係仲保留91緊好古舊92初時嗰個建築93係點樣。即係譬如當時好多華人嚟到打工，其實佢哋係住啲好似板間房94嘅嘢，即係一間房分成四至六個人呀噉樣，佢仲保留緊嗰啲房嘅間隔嘅，噉我哋有參觀到呢一啲嘅房呀，就可以即係了解到當時嘅華人生活係點樣樣呀。
(You might think that these places are somewhere you’d never go in your life, a mystery. For our Chinatown class, one of the field trips is to go and visit a family name association. When you go up, there are actually some places that still preserve very old architecture. For instance, back then, when many Chinese arrived to work, they would essentially live in subdivided apartments where one room would be split up among four to six people–[some] family name associations still preserve the partitions of subdivided apartments, and we can visit to understand how Chinese people lived at the time.)
噉同埋我哋都會同到啲公公婆婆傾計啦，噉因為有好多公公婆婆呢佢哋係譬如可能自己一個人住喺唐人街，噉佢哋啲仔女呀孫呀全部搬晒去 Richmond 即係列治文呀，噉佢哋都想其實同人傾下計呀，即係有人同佢哋打吓麻雀呀。噉我哋即係一班學生去同佢哋傾計呢，其實佢哋好開心囉。即係佢哋都其實都會有人想學廣東話喎，噉而我哋嘅學生又可以喺公公婆婆嗰度學到廣東話啦，因為呢，好多公公婆婆英文唔係好流利呀，噉變咗啲學生呢就冇一個諗法就覺得，哦我有個 back up 即係我唔識講我可以隨時講返英文，噉但佢哋對住公公婆婆就唔可以咁樣諗呀，因為我作為一個老師佢哋肯定我識講英文㗎嘛，所以佢哋有個諗法就如果我講唔掂呢，我就講英文。
(We’ll also chat with older men and women, as many of them perhaps live alone in Chinatown while their children or grandchildren have moved to Richmond, and they [the older folks] want people to talk to or play mahjong with them. There are actually people who want to study Cantonese, and our students can study Cantonese with the older folks, as the older folks’ English isn’t very fluent, and that actually makes it so the students can’t fall on their backup thought which is to use English when they don’t know something–because I am a teacher who definitely knows English, they sometimes think they can use English [with me] if they don’t know something.)
但係對住公公婆婆就唔得喇，佢哋一定要講廣東話嘅，噉都係一種推動95同學去練習嘅機會囉。咁其實呢一種連繫呢，我哋疫情96之前就面對面噉樣去參觀呢一啲嘅宗親會啦，噉去到疫情呢，其實我哋都有保持呢個聯繫嘅，噉我哋就將呢個連繫呢變咗做電話訪問。噉我哋疫情期間呢都有辦過一啲係線上嘅廣東話班嘅。噉我哋個 field trip 呢就變咗係我哋一齊打電話比一位婆婆同佢傾計噉樣啦，噉我覺得係一個社群去表達佢哋對長者嘅關懷啦，噉所以我都好感動97㗎。
(However, that doesn’t work with the old folks–with them, they have to speak Cantonese. It’s a great impetus and opportunity for them to learn Cantonese. Our field trips have even become [things like] calling an old woman together and chatting with her, so I think it has become an expression of care for the elderly in the community, and it’s really moving to me.)
覺得即係見到唔單止係唔同文化唔同背景98嘅交流啦，亦都係一個唔同年代嘅人去即係連繫啦。即係好似英文我哋講呢真係 horizontally 就係唔同嘅地域99嘅人, vertically 就係唔同年齡嘅人。噉所以我覺得呢個班可以做到呢兩個 dimension 嘅 connection 覺得好有意思。
(It’s not just communication among people from different backgrounds but also communication among people from different generations. In English we might say that “horizontally” there are people from different regions and “vertically” there are people of different ages. I think it’s really interesting that people in this class can make two dimensions of connections.)
Cameron: 都有啲美國嘅唐人街有口語歷史嘅活動就係 oral history projects。 你哋有冇就係去諗吓參加類似嘅活動呀？
(There are also some American Chinatowns with oral history projects. Have you guys ever thought about participating in this sort of activity?)
Zoe: 噉如果做 oral history 噉就即係訪問嘅人呢都需要有一定嘅語言水平囉, 即係先至可以明到公公婆婆講嘢。噉暫時100我哋嘅學生都係初班嘅學生，我哋未發展個課程未發展到高班。但係我哋有一啲職員呢譬如係黃氏宗親會嘅職員101呢，係有一啲 archiving 即係佢哋去收集一啲文物102呀，然之後呢做一個記錄，即係保留一個，其實我都唔知道佢哋而家個發展係點樣啦，但係我知道有人做緊呢啲嘢。
(In order to do oral history interviews, one needs to have a certain language level in order to understand the old men and women. For the time being all of our students are beginners–we haven’t developed it to the point where we have an advanced class. However, there are some workers like those at the Wong family association who are doing some archiving by gathering some documents and doing some recording to preserve some–actually, I’m not entirely sure how far they’ve taken it at this point, but I know that there are people doing things.)
Raymond: 噉你講開啦，喺嗰個我哋辦嗰個社區嘅唐人街嘅廣東話班呢，噉佢本身嗰個建築物呀，噉其實佢叫做「文彊學校」啦，噉其實呢個亦都係一個歷史嘅延續103噉樣。噉佢哋其實本身裏面已經都有好多文物呀歷史，但係呢個係爭在你點去組織啦，或者點樣去再次去展示呀，或者去俾大家去接觸。噉但係呢唐人街而家呢方面其實都，即係講緊溫哥華嘅唐人街啦，都除咗呢一個組織之外，仲有其他組織都做緊類似你講嘅口述歷史嘅記錄啦。噉喺對面街呢，就有一個「華埠掌故館」啦。
(Speaking of that, the original building of that Chinatown community Cantonese class is called the Mon Keang School, and it has its own historical background. It has a lot of documents and history, but as to how you go about organizing it, how you go about presenting it, or allowing everyone to engage with it… Now in Chinatown, Vancouver’s Chinatown, besides this organization, there are many organizations doing oral history recordings. On the opposite street there’s something called the “Chinatown Storytelling Centre.”)
噉佢直情104就係叫做一個 Chinatown Storytelling Centre，即係透過每個人講返自己個人嘅歷史。噉呢就用博物館嘅形式啦，噉同埋佢哋亦都辦好多文化活動去展示，噉另外一個就係啱啱先開幕105嘅一個全新嘅「加拿大華裔博物館」，噉亦都係講咗好多啦，再大啲喺譬如喺社會呀、喺國家個角度呀睇下華人嘅歷史呀，同埋當年呢即係好多對於華人一啲歧視106呀，排華法107呀，噉呢啲歷史其實大家都應該去認識呀噉。
(The Chinatown Storytelling Centre shows history through every person talking back on their own lives. It takes the form of a museum, and they put on many cultural activities. Another place that just opened is the Chinese Canadian Museum, and it talks about a lot, with the largest part talking about Chinese peoples’ history from the perspective of society or the country. Back in the day, there was a lot of prejudice against Chinese, and anti-Chinese laws, and everyone should go learn about it.)
Zoe: 係啦華裔博物館裏面呢有好多影片呢係訪問一啲華裔加拿大人呀，噉嗰啲片全部有英文字幕有中文字幕嘅，噉都係一個口述歷史嘅資料庫啦。我覺得同埋最近呢，我知到有一個新嘅刊物呢，係講本拿比，即係 Burnaby 嘅華人歷史嘅。噉我而家撳返108跟嗰個... 係噉我講多一次啦。而家最近呢有一本新嘅刊物呢叫做「紮根」英文呢叫做 “Rooted”。 噉樣佢係一個關於本拿比即係 Burnaby 嘅華人歷史嘅書嚟嘅，噉都係我哋認識嘅同事，阿方靜怡 Denise 呢佢哋有份參與呢個計劃嘅咁係新鮮熱辣109，呢一兩日啱啱出版110嘅，大家可以去睇吓。
(Yes, the Chinese Canadian Museum has many videos of interviews with Chinese Canadians. The films have both English and Chinese subtitles, and it’s also an oral history archive. I think I recently learned about a periodical in Burnaby about the history of Chinese in Burnaby. I’m just going to press [on the computer; NOTE: she was checking the information on the publication]… I’ll say it again, recently there’s a new periodical called zaat3 gan1, or “Rooted” in english. It’s about the history of the Chinese in Burnaby, and we also have a colleague, Denise Fong who has been involved in this hot new project–it just came out a day or two ago, everyone can go look at it. [Note: The interview was conducted in 2023])
Cameron: 好，好。同埋就係你啱啱講嘅，你哋教嘅就係一個初級班係咪？噉你個學生可能就係學晒初級班之後，佢哋會點繼續用佢哋嘅廣東話，或者點繼續學廣東話呀？
(Good, good. As you just said, you’re teaching a beginner class, right? Once students have finished the beginner class, how do they continue to use their Cantonese, or how do they continue to learn it?)
Zoe: 呢個係一個好好嘅問題啦，噉因為我哋做完初班之後呢，我哋都冇乜嘅資源呢去繼續做中班同高班。因為呢第一就係因為我有一個全職111嘅工作啦，噉所以呢我都冇時間去砌一個中班或者高班嘅課程。噉但係其實我一路都係想做呢樣嘢嘅，噉所以我哋嘅所謂畢業生啦 alumni 佢哋有一個 Facebook group 嘅。咁佢哋就會喺上面交換112一啲嘅網上資源呀，或者呢佢哋都會約出嚟練習呀、傾下計呀。噉我哋都有打麻將嘅，即係疫情之後我哋都有辦過幾次喺唐人街打麻將嘅活動啦，噉好多時都會見到我哋以前嚟過上堂嘅學生。噉可能就我哋會一路打麻雀一路練習啦，噉呢個都係一個繼續保持聯繫嘅方式啦。噉同埋如果真係有同學好想繼續學呢，我都會介紹一啲資源畀佢哋啦，即係可能係一啲老師呀或者一啲書本噉樣。
(This is a very good question. After we did the beginner class, we didn’t have the resources for an intermediate class. The first reason is that I have a full-time job, so I don’t have time to put together an intermediate or advanced class. However, I’ve always wanted something like this, so for the alumni who’ve already graduated from the course, we have a Facebook group. There they exchange some online resources or they’ll arrange to meet up and practice, to chat. We also play mahjong–after the pandemic, we arranged a few Chinatown mahjong events, and I’ve often seen former students there. Perhaps we’ll just play mahjong while we practice, and this is a way of continuing to stay connected. And if students really want to continue studying, then I’ll introduce some resources to them like a teacher or a book.)
Cameron: 同埋就係喺唐人街教廣東話呢個過程點影響你自己嘅就係講廣東話人嘅身份呢？
(And how has teaching in Chinatown influenced your identity as a Cantonese speaker?)
Zoe: 呢個係一個好好嘅問題啦，噉我介紹自己嘅時候都提過其實我以前係教英文嘅。噉樣呢，我喺香港嘅時候我都有兼職教過廣東話嘅，噉我嗰陣時係教過幾個德國人，喺香港做嘢嘅德國人教佢哋講廣東話啦。噉當時呢，其實我冇諗過自己係會以教廣東話為我嘅即係一個事業，一個即係我冇諗過會做呢行嘅。噉因為呢，我以前都係諗住我教英文，應該會多啲人請我噉樣樣啦。噉教以前喺香港教廣東話都係一個體驗吓，都係一個兼職113嘅心態啦。噉我嚟到加拿大之後呢，反而令到我有咗個使命感114去推動廣東話。
(This is a very good question. As I said when I was introducing myself, I used to be an English teacher. When I was in Hong Kong, I also worked as a Cantonese teacher on the side, teaching Cantonese to a number of Germans who were working in Hong Kong. At the time, I didn’t think of my vocation as being Cantonese teaching or of it being my line of work. I thought that if I taught English, then I would be hired by more people. When I was in Hong Kong before, I thought of teaching Cantonese as just an experience, and I approached it as a part-time job. It was only later when I moved to Canada that I found a calling in promoting Cantonese.)
因為如果我生活喺香港呢，即係我冇乜危機感115嘅，即係呢我喺香港我啲屋企人、我啲朋友都係講廣東話我又唔覺得推動廣東話係一個使命囉。反而係我嚟到加拿大呢，我真係體驗到哦真係第二代嘅華裔又可能真係唔識講呀，佢哋掙扎116佢哋想學嘅，但係佢哋又掙扎。因為我身邊嘅朋友，佢哋嘅小朋友都真係同我玩嘅時候係同我講英文，所以我係真係切身咁樣感受到一個必要, 逼切性117, 一個逼切性去繼續傳畀下一代，噉所以教唐人街個班嘅時候, 當時我仲係一個學生嚟㗎, 其實 2014 年我仲係讀緊博士學位。噉其實當時我都仲係摸索118緊自己將來事業應該走向邊一邊。
(If I had stayed in Hong Kong, then I wouldn’t have had a sense of crisis [for Cantonese], as in Hong Kong my family and friends all speak Cantonese and I wouldn’t think of promoting Cantonese as a mission. On the other hand, when I came to Canada, I really got a sense of how second-generation Chinese would not know how to speak and struggle–they would want to learn but they would also struggle. That’s because my friends around me had kids who spoke English with their friends when they played, so I really got a personal sense for the acute need to continue passing on Cantonese to the next generation. When I started teaching the Chinatown class, I was still a student. At the time, I was still trying to figure out what I should do in the future.)
因為我真係做學術, 可能我都可以走向研究嗰邊，係淨係做研究, 或者一個教授, 或者我都可以離開學術圈119去做其他嘅。噉當時我係一個摸索嘅階段, 其實呢個唐人街廣東話班都有影響我, 即係對於我事業方向120決定。因為當時我教呢個班, 我都係自己一步走一步, 即係我個過程我都係自己嘗試砌出嚟121, 之後每一年去調節122, 去改進123下噉樣。噉喺個過程我得到一個好大嘅滿足感, 即係因為啲學生真係學完, 佢真係同佢嘅爺爺嫲嫲講「你飲多啲水」, 跟住佢爺爺媽媽好開心呀；或者有小朋友嚟問我, 我想同爺爺講 “I miss you” 噉點講呀？
(I could really do academia, perhaps head toward research–just research–or I could teach, or I could leave academia altogether and do something else. I was in an in-between stage at the time, and the Chinatown class really had an impact on me in terms of helping me decide on my vocation. At the time, I was still taking things a step at a time, as I was still going through the process of trying to piece things together, and then I would adjust after each year and improve things. That process gave me a huge sense of satisfaction, because once the students had taken the class, they could really say “Drink a bit more water” [i.e. “I love you.”], and their grandparents would be very happy. Or sometimes kids would come and ask me how to say “I miss you” to their grandpa.)
噉我就教佢, 佢又真係同爺爺講。噉我覺得真係可以令到好多嘅人去同佢哋嘅長輩去多啲溝通, 多啲關心佢哋, 同埋對於好多華裔加拿大人, 當加拿大人嚟講佢都係搵返自己嘅華裔加拿大人呢個身份, 因為有好多華裔加拿大人呢，細個嘅時候可能係受過歧視呀, 即係學校裏面小朋友, 其他小朋友笑佢食嗰啲飯好臭呀, 或者唔知啲咩食物有陣特別嘅味呀, 即係畀小朋友去欺凌124呀, 噉所以佢哋呢細個嘅時候對於所有係 Chinese 嘅嘢都好抗拒啦, 包括廣東話啦, 噉係大個之後呢先至想去學返, 噉其實佢都係一種英文我哋叫 reconciliation, 即係佢同自己嘅身份和好125返啦。
(I would teach them, and then they would really say it to their grandpa. I really think it allowed many people to be able to communicate with the older generation, making them happier. Also, for many Chinese Canadians, they want to find their Chinese-Canadian identity, because many Chinese Canadians might have faced discrimination when they were little. When they were in school as kids, other kids would tease them for eating “stinky” food or wouldn’t know what sort of particular smell it was the food had–they would bully them. Thus, when they were young, Chinese Canadians could come to resent “Chinese” things, including Cantonese. Only after growing up would they want to study [Cantonese], something we call “reconciliation” in English, a reconciliation of their identity.)
噉所以我覺得呢個教粵語嘅工作呢，唔單止係教一個語言, 而真係係幫到一代人去接納126佢自己嘅身份, 幫呢一代人同上一代嘅人去連繫, 咁所以我覺得呢一件事係非常之有意義啦。而呢一個諗法呢係令到我去決定呢我以後我就係想做一個粵語嘅教育者，噉所以呢一個經驗真係改變咗我人生呀, 可以話。
(That’s why I think of the work of teaching Cantonese not only as teaching a language, but also as helping a generation of people get in touch with their identity and connect with the older generation. I think this has a lot of meaning, and this led me to decide that I wanted to be a Cantonese educator, so you could say that that experience really changed my life.)
Cameron: 係呀，我覺得呢個就係年代之間嘅關係係一個好特別嘅問題，因為好多人可能覺得我學語言嘅時候，就係我想其他地方，其他國家嘅人傾計，但係可能有好多特別係 heritage learners 佢哋係想同另一個年代嘅人傾吓計，噉 Raymond 你都有冇啲就係想 add （補充127）嘅?
(Yes, I think this intergenerational relationship is a very special issue, as many people might think about other places when studying a language, talking to people from other countries, but perhaps many heritage learners want to speak with another generation. Raymond, is there anything you want to add?)
Raymond: 係，我補充我就冇乜補充啦，因為 Zoe 都講得好全面128呀。即係呢一個嘅課程係對於個人呀、家庭呀、社區呀、成個社會呀、嗰個嘅好處實在太多，噉所以呢呢個好似阿 Cameron 你都提到啦，噉唔應該淨係發生喺加拿大溫哥華，應該呢每個社區都去考慮129吓即係做，唔一定要一模一樣噉樣嘅課程啦，但係呢都去考慮吓點樣呢, 利用語言呀, 將社區同埋唔同年代嘅人連繫起嚟。因為我哋最近都亦都有其他嘅社區同我哋聯絡話，我哋都想辦類似嘅課程呀, 所謂向我哋取經130呀，應該向 Zoe 取經呀，噉所以呢個都好緊要。
(Yeah, there isn’t really much for me to add, as Zoe was quite comprehensive. This program brings so many benefits whether to individuals, families, the community, or society. As you said, Cameron, it’s not something that should only be in Vancouver, it’s something that people should consider everywhere. They don’t necessarily have to do it the exact same way, but you can still think about how to use language to bring a community and different generations together. Recently, other communities have reached out to us saying they want to organize something similar and they want to learn from us, to learn from Zoe, so this is very important.)
噉呢，我哋都睇住時間啦, 我哋又做返我哋個傳統啦，我哋通常呢，我哋同嘉賓呢，亦都會各自呢, 去分享一個，好似我哋覺得對於粵語學習者有用嘅資源嘅。噉你哋會唔會馬上會諗到一個想分享㗎? 噉，我不如我開始啦，既然我提出呢件事，噉你哋可以諗下。噉因為我哋既然講到而家，即係一啲有歷史性嘅資源去幫助我哋學習呢，噉我哋最近粵語課程都辦咗個活動，我哋就係同個「華埠掌故館」呢，去合辦，我哋就請咗一個香港嘅演員131，噉佢叫歐錦棠先生，噉佢呢，除咗係演員之外，佢都係一個好出名去研究李小龍 Bruce Lee 歷史嘅演員嚟嘅。
(Looking at the time, we’ll follow our tradition. We, along with our guest, usually share a resource that we think will be useful for Cantonese learners. Can you guys think of something right away to share? How about I go first, since I brought this up, and you guys can think. Given that we are now talking about some historical resources that can help us, our Cantonese class recently teamed up with the Chinatown Storytelling Centre. We invited a Cantonese actor named Stephen Au Kam Tong. Besides being an actor, he is also a well-known researcher of the history of the actor Bruce Lee.)
噉佢就同我哋合辦咗一個去介紹李小龍嘅生平，同埋去展示歐先生呢，佢都收藏132咗好多佢嘅文物，噉樣透過呢啲嘅文物同埋佢嘅影片去講返佢嘅歷史。噉嗰次辦出嚟嗰個效果133都好成功，佢就係一場廣東話啦、一場英文噉樣都滿座134呀噉樣。噉但係我提出呢件事呢，就係因為呢原來歐錦棠先生呢，佢就喺 YouTube，佢亦都係一個 YouTuber 嚟嘅喎，噉佢嗰，佢啲片嘅內容，就係除咗有講李小龍之外呢，佢就係講好多香港嘅歷史，叫做「乜乜棠水鋪」噉嗰個「棠水」呢，即係唔係食嗰啲「糖水135」，係「歐錦棠」嗰個「棠」，即係呢佢去「吹水」，噉所以叫做「乜乜棠水鋪」。
(He collaborated with us in organizing an introduction to the life of Bruce Lee, and at the presentation, Mr. Au–who has collected many documents related to Bruce Lee–used documents and movie clips to recount history. This event was a very successful event, with both the Cantonese and English presentations fully packed. I bring this up because as it turns out Mr. Au is also a YouTuber, and the content of his videos touches on not only Bruce Lee but also Hong Kong history. The channel is called “Mat1 mat1 tong4 seoi2 pou2), but the characters for tong4 seoi2 in the title refers not to the dessert but rather is a pun using the tong4 in Au Kam Tong–he’s just talking for the heck of it, so it’s basically called “Tong’s Chatter Shop.”)
噉我就睇得好投入136嘅，因為呢佢講好多係可能我哋聽過少少，但係又唔係好清楚嘅香港嘅歷史啦，噉因為佢自己又係做廣播137啦，所以佢講嘢好清楚啦，噉有埋字幕138噉樣，所以我覺得無論你對歷史、對廣東話、對香港有興趣呢，呢個係一個幾好嘅資源，噉呀好似以前嗰幾集都講過，YouTube上面有好多好多嘅內容，我會推介呢一個頻道139。
(I really felt pulled in watching it, as he talks about many things from Hong Kong history that we might have heard a little bit about but are not too clear on. Since he used to be a media broadcaster, he is very clear in how he speaks, and there are also subtitles, so I think regardless of whether you’re interested in history, Cantonese, or Hong Kong, this is a great resource. I think I brought up a few episodes ago that there is a lot of good content on YouTube, and I recommend this channel.)
Zoe: 如果我要推薦一個資源嘅話，噉因為我都有提過「華裔博物館」，不如我就順便推講下佢哋嘅展覽140，而家有一個展覽係，叫做「1923 排華法案」，咁就係佢哋收集咗好多當年交人頭稅141，嗰個稅嘅收據142，即係佢哋做咗好多嘅資料收集，向好多家庭問佢哋嘅批准143去收集佢哋嘅，即係佢哋屋企以前嘅人，即係二幾年嗰代嘅人交過人頭稅嘅，即係嗰張收據收集返一齊，即係佢哋個展覽嗰度展出，咁係一個好震撼144嘅展覽，即係好多張，佢即係見到曬每一個人嘅相。即係佢哋嗰啲名仲要好多係假名145嚟㗎，因為佢哋有好多叫 “paper son”，即係為咗要嚟温哥華，要嚟加拿大，就認自己係邊個邊個個仔，令到自己可以嚟噉樣。
(If I’m going to recommend a resource, given that I already brought up the Chinese Canadian Museum, how about I just recommend their exhibition. They have an exhibition right now called “The Paper Trail to the 1923 Chinese Exclusion Act” [Note: The original exhibition concluded in January, 2025, but has now transferred from Vancouver to Victoria, B.C.] They’ve collected many receipts for the “head tax” at the time, all sorts of materials, as they got the approval from many families to assemble the materials of their ancestors ). They brought together all these receipts from a few years in the 20s that they’ve put on display in the exhibit, and it’s very moving. You can see people’s pictures, and among their names there are also many fake names, because there were many of what you’d call a “paper son,” because in order to come to Vancouver at the time, you would say that you were so-and-so’s son in order to enter.)
噉嗰個展覽係除咗有關於人頭稅嘅資料之外，仲有啲係以前喺加拿大出世嘅華裔，嗰一張嘅身份證明146文件147上面係寫明佢哋唔係公民，即係佢係冇公民148嘅權利149，同埋都有好多其他嘅華裔加拿大人佢講返自己屋企嘅歷史，噉佢係用影片嘅方式去呈現150出嚟。噉我呢就會鼓勵初學者，即係如果你學緊廣東話嘅初學者，你可以去睇下嗰啲嘅影片，就睇住英文字幕咁樣，聽佢哋講廣東話，咁如果呢係中班或者高班嘅同學，我就鼓勵你哋去報，去即係嗰個網站嗰度呢，去報名參加一個粵語導賞團151。
(Besides materials related to the head tax, the exhibit also has the identity documents for ethnic Chinese born in Canada that clearly state that they are not citizens because they did not have citizenship rights. They also use things like video clips to show other Chinese Canadians talking about their family histories. I encourage beginning students, as in if you are just starting to study Cantonese, to go watch these videos. Read the English subtitles and listen to the Cantonese. If you are an intermediate or advanced student, I recommend that you go online and register for a Cantonese guided tour.)
噉因為華裔博物館係有英文導賞、廣東話導賞同埋普通話導賞嘅，噉如果中班、高班嘅同學呢，我覺得可以去試下去嗰個廣東話嘅導賞，噉個導賞員就用廣東話介紹嗰啲展品，咁因為嗰啲展品全部都有英文嘅解說152，所以就算你唔係完全聽得明導賞員講嘅嘢，你哋睇嗰啲解說應該都會明白嘅，噉我覺得呢個都係一個學習幾好，即係幾好嘅學習方法，又係一個親身去體驗一個展覽，噉又聽下歷史，噉因為其實我頭先講到好多嘢都係關於華裔加拿大人嘅身份認同，噉所以就回應153返我頭先所講嘅主題154啦。
(Because they have English, Cantonese, and Mandarin guided tours, if you are an intermediate or advanced student, I think you can try going with the Cantonese tour. The tour guide will use Cantonese to introduce the exhibition items, but because all of the items have English explanations [on their placards], if you don’t fully understand what the guide is saying in Cantonese, you can read the explanation to understand. I think this is a good learning opportunity as well as a good method of study, and it also allows you to experience the exhibition in-person while hearing some history. Because much of what I talked about earlier relates to the identity of Chinese Canadians, which resonates to the theme I just mentioned before.)
Cameron: 係呀，其實我覺得我下一次去温哥華嘅時候有好多地方都要去嘅。嘩，好，噉我今日想就分享嘅係其實係我朋友嘅書，佢叫 Jason Lee，佢係作家同埋畫家，同埋呢本書叫 Hanmoji Handbook, Your guide to the Chinese language through emoji，就係 Jason 同兩人一齊寫嘅，佢第二個作家叫 Ann Xiao Mina，同埋第三個叫 Jennifer 8. Lee，同埋我覺得呢本書好得意，因為佢哋全部係用 emoji 教漢字嘅。所以好多人可能同 Zoe 啱啱講嘅就一樣係有時漢字好複雜155，係咪？可能學寫好難，但係我覺得如果你用呢個 emoji 嘅方法，可能就係開始識睇，呢個係最簡單嘅嘢，所以我覺得如果你睇呢啲好得意 emoji 嘅（圖）象156，你會覺得，嘩，而家就係睇呢啲漢字嘅時候都可以就係了解佢嘅意思係咩呀。所以我覺得大家在好多地方都可以買 Amazon 啦，同埋好多就係 bookstore 都有嘅，係呀，就係 Raymond 你有冇睇過呢本書呀?
(Yeah, I think that next time I go to Vancouver there are many places that I would like to go. What I want to share today is actually my friend’s book, his name is Jason Lee, and he is an author and illustrator. His book is called The Hanmoji Handbook: Your guide to the Chinese Language through Emoji. It was written jointly by Jason and two other people, Ann Xiao Mina and Jennifer 8 Lee. I think this book is really cute, as it uses emoji to teach Chinese characters. As Zoe said earlier, some people might think of Chinese characters as very complicated, right? Learning to write them is hard, but if you use this emoji method, perhaps you will start to be able to recognize them, as that’s the simplest. I think that if you look at these very cute emoji pictures, you might think, “Wow, when I look at these Chinese characters, I can understand their meaning.” I think people can find it on Amazon, and many bookstores also have it. Raymond, have you seen this book?)
Raymond: 冇喎，你講到我都好有興趣睇，因為呢個漢字嘅教學法其實亦都係影響住好多學生，特別係 heritage learners，即係佢哋去令到佢哋卻步157，因為佢哋可能聽同講都識識哋，噉但係呢，就係自然佢哋冇學好，令到佢哋冇繼續去學習嘅一個原因。所以我覺得呢個話題都可以另外開一集去講下呢個漢字嘅教學法，最近我都諗好多呢個問題。
(No, but your speaking about it makes me interested, as the teaching and learning of Chinese characters has a big influence on students, particularly heritage learners, as characters can hold them back. They might be able to understand and speak [Cantonese], but they didn’t fully study characters and that might be a reason they didn’t continue studying. I think this topic could lead to another episode about the teaching of characters, as I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot recently.)
Cameron: 覺得就係, 多謝 Zoe 今日同我哋就係分享你嘅課程同埋你嘅經驗，我覺得我哋嘅聽眾都會覺得非常之有趣，係咪呀?
(I think it is. Thank you to Zoe for sharing the experiences of your program with us today, I think our listeners will find it really interesting, right?)
Raymond: 多謝曬, Zoe。
(Thank you very much, Zoe.)
Zoe: 多謝你哋邀請。
(Thank you both for inviting me.)
Cameron:
我下一次去溫哥華嘅時候，可能佢去唐人街就旁聽你嘅課。
(Next time I am in Vancouver, perhaps I’ll go sit in on your Chinatown class.)
Zoe: 好，我會帶你食菠蘿包同埋叉燒包。
(Great, I’ll take you to eat pineapple buns and chasiu.)
Cameron: 好呀，好呀。好開心呀!
(Great, great. I’d be delighted!)